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ClickDimensions - delayed emails

  • 1.  ClickDimensions - delayed emails

    Posted Jan 13, 2020 08:26 AM
    We purchased ClickDimensions licenses ​about a year ago and have slowly started using the tool to send commercial emails to our insureds. We have a project to replace our client portal and the current plan is to use ClickDimensions to send transactional emails such as a registration link, password reset, billing invoices, etc.

    Most of the emails aren't particularly time sensitive, however the registration invitation and password reset are, when a user requests one of those emails they would expect the email to show in their inbox within a reasonable timeframe (less than 5 minutes).  After noticing some delays we did some timing testing and it looks like the delay is often on the ISP side (CD says the email was delivered in a short timeframe, but the email isn't actually received for 15-30 minutes - in some case it took hours!)  That being said, there have also been times where it gets "stuck" in the campaign automation and sits there for an unreasonable amount of time before we get a delivery confirmation.

    I have talked with CD about both issues, and their answer is that the ISP side is out of their control and there is nothing they can do about it, and when I pushed on the cases where it was delayed in CD I was escalated to a higher level support (which took over a week of back-and-forth before I got there) and after 45+ minutes on the phone they found a "blip" but couldn't give me any info on it and assured it me it shouldn't happen again (even though it has happened twice in the few months we have been doing this).

    So, my question...Has anybody else had experience with the delay being on the ISP side, and did you find anything to help speed things up?  Also, is anyone else having issues with the delay on the CD side?  The project that is planning to use the tool is about ready to back out and send the emails via our own exchange servers because they don't feel CD is reliable enough.

    Thanks!

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    Amanda Aarsvold
    Federated Insurance
    ------------------------------
    The first step toward cloud success. - Migrate from CRM to D365 with expert guidance from Microsoft. I'm Ready


  • 2.  RE: ClickDimensions - delayed emails

    TOP CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted Jan 14, 2020 02:38 AM
    We were a CD customer.
    We left mainly due to repeated downtime on the CD side - often days on end.

    I don't believe the ISP thing myself - why would an ISP delay incoming email?
    You can test this by recreating the email workflow in native dynamics and see how long it takes to get delivered.

    ------------------------------
    Donal McCarthy
    Digital Marketing Administrator
    BrightWork
    Galway
    ------------------------------

    The first step toward cloud success. - Migrate from CRM to D365 with expert guidance from Microsoft. I'm Ready


  • 3.  RE: ClickDimensions - delayed emails

    Posted Jan 14, 2020 08:30 AM
    Thanks for your reply.  We are dealing with downtime with them right now - they had an outage which we didn't hear anything about, and since then we have been having errors in processes that were working before their outage, but not after.

    There are several places where I have seen talk of ISPs throttling incoming traffic - they only allow so much content to come through, and can throttle specific IPs even further.  Makes sense that they would be suspicious of thousands of emails coming from one place and want to slow that traffic down to make sure it isn't spam.  We don't have a dedicated IP (we don't have the email volume to support one) so our emails are coming from CD's general IP.


    ------------------------------
    Amanda Aarsvold
    Federated Insurance
    ------------------------------

    The first step toward cloud success. - Migrate from CRM to D365 with expert guidance from Microsoft. I'm Ready


  • 4.  RE: ClickDimensions - delayed emails

    Posted Jan 21, 2020 11:20 AM
    Hi Donal, can I ask what you are using now in place of CD?

    Thank you.

    ------------------------------
    Autumn
    ------------------------------

    The first step toward cloud success. - Migrate from CRM to D365 with expert guidance from Microsoft. I'm Ready


  • 5.  RE: ClickDimensions - delayed emails

    TOP CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted Jan 21, 2020 11:35 AM
    Sure - we are using native workflows and emails for transactional emails.
    We purchased an STMP service for this as O365 would not allow the volume we send - these emails seem to deliver instantly.
    We also occasionally use this for some bulk sends.
    For most or our bulk sends, we are using Constant Contact and a plugin called SyncApps from Cazoomi for limited syncing to Dynamics.
    It syncs new leads to Constant Contact and syncs unsubscribes back to Dynamics.
    The latter experience has not been great (mainly on the Constant Contact side), so we are in the process of implementing Dynamics for Marketing.

    ------------------------------
    Donal McCarthy
    Digital Marketing Administrator
    BrightWork
    Galway
    ------------------------------

    The first step toward cloud success. - Migrate from CRM to D365 with expert guidance from Microsoft. I'm Ready


  • 6.  RE: ClickDimensions - delayed emails

    Posted Jan 21, 2020 12:28 PM
    Thanks, that is helpful. We are exploring Dynamics for Marketing as our replacement. It seems the product has made big strides recently, but there is a bit of fear that we would be trading one set of problems for another. I appreciate your response!

    ------------------------------
    Autumn Hearne
    KCoe Isom
    ------------------------------

    The first step toward cloud success. - Migrate from CRM to D365 with expert guidance from Microsoft. I'm Ready


  • 7.  RE: ClickDimensions - delayed emails

    TOP CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted Jan 14, 2020 02:55 AM
    Hi Amanda,
    we are using ClickDimensions heavily with some 100.000.000 emails/year. Sending one to one emails are usually send very quick (less than 5 minutes). ClickDimensions states on their support site that customers can expect emails to be delivered within 24 hours and it happens that emails are delayed, what I see mostly on bulk emails where we send 300.000+ emails/day.
    In your case I would suggest to use the CRM native EMail delivery for the password reset as Donal already suggested. You can create a workflow and start the workflow from your campaign automation process.

    ------------------------------
    Axel Girgensohn
    Dynamics CRM Specialist
    Aller Media AB
    ------------------------------

    The first step toward cloud success. - Migrate from CRM to D365 with expert guidance from Microsoft. I'm Ready


  • 8.  RE: ClickDimensions - delayed emails

    Posted Jan 14, 2020 08:21 AM
    Our "large sends" are to 25,000-30,000 customers at a time, and honestly, if there is a delay in those sends being received it really doesn't matter too much as they don't know when we hit send so nobody is expecting an email at any particular time.

    We were hoping to send all emails via ClickDimensions, our advertising department has created branded email templates that all have a consistent look and feel.  Today all of the emails from our company are being delivered via our exchange server and every group is kind of doing their own thing which means fonts, logo choice, verbiage, etc vary from email to email.  In today's digital culture that can tarnish the reputation we have built with our customers if they start questioning if the emails we are sending could possibly be spam.

    The Native Email Delivery may need to be our "next best option".  It checks the box that the email is still displayed in CRM tied to the contact, and hopefully will produce better turnaround time, we will need to work through the branding and styling to make the emails as consistent as possible.  Just frustrating that we can't use the tool that we purchased.  I have not been overly impressed with CD as a whole.

    ------------------------------
    Amanda Aarsvold
    Federated Insurance
    ------------------------------

    The first step toward cloud success. - Migrate from CRM to D365 with expert guidance from Microsoft. I'm Ready


  • 9.  RE: ClickDimensions - delayed emails

    TOP CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted Jan 15, 2020 04:28 AM
    BTW - if you plan to use O365 for bulk email, you should look at adding an SMTP relay service (I think that is the correct term) as O365 has limits to prevent this.
    My knowledge here is limited to roughly knowing what this is called!

    ------------------------------
    Donal McCarthy
    Digital Marketing Administrator
    BrightWork
    Galway
    ------------------------------

    The first step toward cloud success. - Migrate from CRM to D365 with expert guidance from Microsoft. I'm Ready


  • 10.  RE: ClickDimensions - delayed emails

    GOLD CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted Jan 15, 2020 09:37 AM
    Amanda,
    We had issues with delivery time about 3 years ago because we were sending a lot of single emails via workflows (i.e. only one recipient per emailSend)
    Turns out that CD had a throttling mechanism as where they processed a max of 300 emailSend per hour.
    Sometimes, we would send like 10K+ emailSend at 3 in the morning. Their queue would be busy for 10000/300 = 33 hours! All the emailSend we sent during the day would be postponed by this amount of time.

    At the time, we did the following to resolve our problem
    1) CD changed changed the throttling from 300 to 600 per hour. That was the max value they could set.
    2) We changed our nightly (3 am) marketing job service to send emails as following. (We do have 30+ different kinds of emails)
    - if the number of emails to send is < n, then send them right away (n is set to make sure that all the individual emailSend are finished processing within about 2 hours)
    - if the number is larger, then we prepare the emailSend as bulk and send an email to the Marketing personal with a list of CRM links to those emailSend records.
    When they come in in the morning, they open the emailSend and click on SEND to approve them.
    Note that there is no way in CD to automatically send a bulk email if there is more than one recipient. One has to approve it first.

    Hope this helps

    ------------------------------
    Christian J. Betrisey
    Software Developer
    American College of Emergency Physicians
    Irving TX
    ------------------------------

    The first step toward cloud success. - Migrate from CRM to D365 with expert guidance from Microsoft. I'm Ready


  • 11.  RE: ClickDimensions - delayed emails

    Posted Jan 17, 2020 06:22 AM
    Hello Amanda,
    I am not with CD but working in the deliverability space and would like to add some thoughts to the matter. I totally understand the need for transactional mail to get to the recipient as fast as possible. Usually ESPs (like CD) are separating the traffic via IP and / or domain to not having commercial mail impacting transactional. Even the best marketing program has a worse reputation than mails the recipient is actively waiting for.

    Anyways, delays between the email getting triggered and the email popping up in the recipient's inbox are the standard. Most ESPs are using complex pattern for different domains to get this delay as small as possible but Mailbox Providers (MBP) are only accepting a certain amount of mail in a given time frame from a given sender.
    And after the mail was successful transferred to the MBP the ESP has no more control about how long it will take to reach the Inbox. Depending on the MBP there are several different system in between.
    That being said, I would try to make sure where the delay lies. If you have an example at Gmail, open "show original" and there will be one line called "Created on". The number in seconds tell you how long Gmail took from receiving to delivering the mail internal. If that number doesn't account of the full delay, parts lie with the ESP. In that case opening a ticket with CD and ask for have this escalated to their Deliverability Staff would be the best approach.

    Cheers,
    Mathias

    ------------------------------
    Mathias Ullrich
    Manager Deliverability EMEA
    dotdigital EMEA Limited

    ------------------------------

    The first step toward cloud success. - Migrate from CRM to D365 with expert guidance from Microsoft. I'm Ready


  • 12.  RE: ClickDimensions - delayed emails

    Posted Jan 17, 2020 11:50 AM
    Thanks again, everyone for your responses.  I have numerous examples where I can show the delay is on their side, and hopefully a meeting with a deliverablity expert next week.  In the mean time I will try using a CRM workflow instead of the CD campaign automations and see if we get more consistent results.  I will also see what else I can pull from the emails themselves to determine where the delay is happening.

    ------------------------------
    Amanda Aarsvold
    Federated Insurance
    ------------------------------

    The first step toward cloud success. - Migrate from CRM to D365 with expert guidance from Microsoft. I'm Ready


  • 13.  RE: ClickDimensions - delayed emails

    Posted 8 hours ago
    Hi Amanda,

    I work for Touchdown which is an integrated marketing suite within your CRM.
    According to your struggles, I would recommend you look into our solution. It is very easy-to-use as you will discover for yourself to help you not only to deliver, schedule or send the emails at the best time during each of your contacts but will also increase your deliverability.
    In case you're interested you can find more information here: https://www.touchdown.co/ or try the suite yourself for free as well: https://appsource.microsoft.com/en-us/product/dynamics-365/touchdown.touchdown

    Regards,
    Adriana

    ------------------------------
    Adriana Vrablova
    Touchdown
    ------------------------------

    The first step toward cloud success. - Migrate from CRM to D365 with expert guidance from Microsoft. I'm Ready


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