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Creating a business case for upgrade from CRM 2011

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  • 1.  Creating a business case for upgrade from CRM 2011

    Posted Dec 12, 2018 05:40 AM
    Hello everyone,

    we have currently 2011 on-premise. We got finally to a stage where the management is open to discuss migration to a newer version. Now, the challenge is that the idea is to possibly go only to 2013.

    We are trying to build a case for going for 365 directly, the challenge is obviously the running cost.

    I wanted to ask if there are some points we could be possibly overlooking? From my point of view, 365 would be really future-proofing us, while we might have integration issues with 2013 soon again (integration with other systems such as CMS and marketing automation is the main driver).

    Also, we will need to do business analysis of the company to look at the processes and doing two upgrades in 5 years might end up too much for business.

    Are there significant features we would get with 365 and not 2013?

    Was anyone in a similar situation? What argument helped you?

    Thanks
    Zlatka

    #CRM2011 ​#CRM2013


  • 2.  RE: Creating a business case for upgrade from CRM 2011

    GOLD CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted Dec 12, 2018 03:22 PM
    Here's an article I found while trying to find a feature comparison of all the versions.  I was on 2011 on premise at my last company and on D635 online now in my current role, so I am cringing at the though of you having to only migrate to 2013!

    https://www.nigelfrank.com/blog/dynamics-365-vs-dynamics-crm-is-it-worth-the-switch/

    If you have a lot of users who would use the mobile app, I found that the change from version 8 to version 9 was huge for them since they changed the way it stored data on their phone - they had a lot of issues with the app loading and that is all so much better now.

    Check in the article under the "how do the features compare" section for the full list.

    Good luck selling it!  I will keep my fingers crossed for you.


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    Jill Vazquez
    Technical Specialist - CRM
    Bioventus, LLC
    Durham NC
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  • 3.  RE: Creating a business case for upgrade from CRM 2011

    GOLD CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted Dec 14, 2018 09:57 AM
    Here's a really good reason NOT to go to 2013...it's about to go out of support.

    https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/search?alpha=Dynamics%20CRM%202013

    There is no reason to go to 2013, it's so far out of date to not even consider it.

    Online or On-Prem, 365 (9.x) is the way to go at this point.  It's better to spend the time and effort now.

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    Chris Harrington
    Solutions Architect
    PowerObjects
    TN
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: Creating a business case for upgrade from CRM 2011

    TOP CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted Dec 17, 2018 08:30 AM
    You really need to show them the cost analysis.  That is what most management understands.

    2013 is almost out of support and that is like going to Windows 8 instead of the latest and greatest of Windows for your desktop.     Depending on what you are utilizing CRM for, you would need to show the cost to upgrade to D365 now compared to upgrading later.    I know if you are not under MS maintenance, the costs are huge to upgrade but you might not be there now, so i don't know the details at the moment.

    What are there reasons for the jump to 2013 compared to upgrading all the way?

    ------------------------------
    Beth Burrell , MCP - MCSE - MCT

    Wesley Chapel FL
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: Creating a business case for upgrade from CRM 2011
    Best Answer

    SILVER CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted Dec 18, 2018 03:52 AM
    Hi,

    I would suggest a different Approach:
    Do NOT make the comparison between 2013 and 365
    Instead: make a comparison between On-Premise and Cloud.

    Our Management was also confused and thought "ahh..365..that must mean we are then in the Cloud". That is NOT the case.
    You can also install 365 On-Prem.

    If you decide to stay On-Prem use 365. The cost are the same as with 2013. You can still use your old On-Prem-licenses.
    It is just a new Version number.
    Only downside: you will Need "Windows Server 2016" for the latest On-Prem 365 Version. If you don't already use it, that could mean more work for the Admin-Team.

    However if you decide to go to the Cloud the license-costs are much higher than On-Prem. When you don't have any Features that are really needed by the Business that are Cloud-only I would not recommend that.
    You can get pretty far with the On-Prem Version (using IFD and MFA you can even access it from anywhere and any device, if you like).

    Regards,
    Johannes

    ------------------------------
    Johannes .

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  • 6.  RE: Creating a business case for upgrade from CRM 2011

    Posted Dec 18, 2018 06:33 AM
    Thanks a lot for the suggestions.

    I think the 365 on-premise and cloud based comparison is the way forward. It's coming with a strong change in culture for us, so I think that's a best way to achieve a compromise...

    ------------------------------
    Zlatka Larsen
    Defaqto Ltd
    Haddenham
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: Creating a business case for upgrade from CRM 2011

    TOP CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted Dec 18, 2018 10:13 AM
    Hi Zlatka

    To be quite blunt, the CRM 2013 User Interface is horrible.  Especially coming from CRM 2011.  It has gotten better (CRM 2015, CRM 2016)

    I absolutely love the Dynamics product, but when CRM 2013 came out I almost considered a career change.

    The most recent Dynamics 365 (v9) unified interface actually is a lot more like CRM 2011 (tabbed sections, side navigation) and I would even say the "change" from CRM 2011 is *less* dramatic than going to the CRM 2013 interface.

    It sounds like you have a very cautious organization when it comes to change, which is not a bad thing, but jumping to "just" to CRM 2013 is a bad decision for a variety of reasons.

    Hope this helps.

    Cheers
    Nick

    ------------------------------
    Nick Doelman
    Microsoft MVP
    Ottawa ON
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: Creating a business case for upgrade from CRM 2011

    MVP DE MICROSOFT
    Posted Dec 18, 2018 10:52 AM
    I am wondering why it's 2013 and not 2015/2016/365 - guessing the assumption is that there will be less work. Technically, that's not, necessarily, true. As long as you can upgrade to 2013 you should also be able to upgrade to the newer versions, so, then, why upgrading to something that's already at the end of mainstream support as mentioned above.

    You may want to have a look at this post to see the upgrade scenario:

    https://www.akaes.com/resources/microsoft-dynamics-crm-2016-how-to-prepare-for-an-upgrade-infographic/

    Keep in mind, though, that, if you go all the way to v9 (which is 365), you may also have to re-build the plugins for .NET 4.6.2 (this may affect your own plugins/custom workflow activities or third-party solutions):

    https://support.microsoft.com/en-ca/help/4345239/assembly-version-error-importing-dynamics-365-solution


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    Alex Shlega
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  • 9.  RE: Creating a business case for upgrade from CRM 2011

    Posted Dec 18, 2018 10:59 AM
    Thanks a lot - the main assumption for the upgrade is really the on-premise licensing...

    It's quite hard to argue if you go from 0 running cost to £40k a year...

    So, strictly speaking, I really like the possibility for 365 on premise as while not the most elegant, it would take us up and without too much cost (possibly).

    That said, I think BI analytics and integrations are making the case for 365.

    ------------------------------
    Zlatka Larsen
    Defaqto Ltd
    Haddenham
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: Creating a business case for upgrade from CRM 2011

    GOLD CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted Dec 18, 2018 11:09 AM
    It's not 'free' to stay on-prem though. You have to factor in the cost of the infrastructure needed to host in on-prem vs. online.  I don't have any worksheets or anything, but you have to keep these things in mind when staying on-prem.

    - SQL Server licensing
    - Windows Server Licensing
    - Hardware/VM costs
    - Storage Costs
    - Backup strategy and maintenance costs
    - Network hardware and bandwidth Costs (although this applies to online too)
    - Data Center overhead
    - IT overhead/people costs to handle all of the above

    Most, if not all, of these costs are rolled in to your cloud pricing.  You have to do your own internal analysis...but these are not insignificant costs.



    ------------------------------
    Chris Harrington
    Solutions Architect
    PowerObjects
    TN
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: Creating a business case for upgrade from CRM 2011

    MVP DE MICROSOFT
    Posted Dec 18, 2018 11:19 AM
    Analytics is somewhat different from on-prem:

    - Power BI won't have Dynamics-integrated security, so you'll have to find workarounds: https://www.powerobjects.com/2018/07/16/row-level-security-power-bi-dynamics-365/
    - SSRS reports won't be able to use SQL (that's if you go online)

    PS. That said I think "online" is the way to go in the long term, since that's where Microsoft is making most of the investments. But it's not just a cultural or licensing change - it's also a technical change which may require some extra work on your side.

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    Alex Shlega
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  • 12.  RE: Creating a business case for upgrade from CRM 2011

    Posted Dec 19, 2018 09:29 AM
    In 2017, my non-profit organization migrated from CRM 2011 On Prem to 365 Cloud. We hired a consulting company to assist with this migration as I am an IT dept of one person. One important thing that affected the cost and duration of our project was that ​we were told we could not migrate directly from CRM 2011 On Prem to 365 Cloud. We had to upgrade from CRM 2011 On Prem to CRM 2013 On Prem and then from 2013 to 365 Cloud, because of a database structure change between 2011 and 2013. The structure does change between 2011 and 2013, but with the issues we had with the company we hired it wouldn't surprise me if there was a way to do that migration in one hop.I would suggest researching this to know for sure that it can be done in one hop, or if it's still a two hop migration you are fully aware of the scope of the project.

    I do agree with everyone here that if you're going to migrate, migrate past CRM 2013. 2013 offered no real advantages for the headaches that it caused.

    ------------------------------
    Melissa Turner
    Database & Business Intelligence Coordinator
    Indianapolis Neighborhood Housing Partnership
    Indianapolis IN
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  • 13.  RE: Creating a business case for upgrade from CRM 2011

    GOLD CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted Dec 19, 2018 09:43 AM
    That's crazy...you shouldn't have had to go to 2013 at all to move to the cloud.  Using SSIS or Scribe, they could have migrated the data directly through the web service.

    You would still have to replicate your solution and customizations in the cloud, those could not be migrated from 2011 at all.  Depending on how much there was, that would be an effort, but I don't see any reason to go 2011 -> 2013 -> Cloud?  Weird.



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    Chris Harrington
    Solutions Architect
    PowerObjects
    TN
    ------------------------------



  • 14.  RE: Creating a business case for upgrade from CRM 2011

    TOP CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted Dec 19, 2018 12:06 PM
    I can't speak for this particular project, but with other customers where we did not use FastTrack, we upgraded a copy of the CRM 4.0 to CRM 2011 to CRM 2013 to create a solution file to be able to transfer all the customizations (entities, fields, forms, views, workflows, etc) to Dynamics 365.  So the upgrade process was not for the data, but for the customizations.  Then we used tools to move the data (from CRM 4.0 or CRM 2011) as the schema now matched on both ends.  Obviously there were a lot of other steps (reports, scripts, etc) and also took the opportunity to clean up/refactor a lot of stuff.  The actual upgrade "hops" should have not affected users or day to day use.

    So its not a crazy concept... but depends on the context. :)

    Cheers
    Nick

    ------------------------------
    Nick Doelman
    Microsoft MVP
    Ottawa ON
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  • 15.  RE: Creating a business case for upgrade from CRM 2011

    GOLD CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted Dec 19, 2018 12:56 PM
    "CRM 2011 to CRM 2013 to create a solution file to be able to transfer all the customizations "

    Actually...that is a good point, I stand corrected.  :-)

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    Chris Harrington
    Solutions Architect
    PowerObjects
    TN
    ------------------------------



  • 16.  RE: Creating a business case for upgrade from CRM 2011

    GOLD CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted Dec 20, 2018 10:01 AM
    Just curious...

    How did you estimate the monthly costs of your Dynamics 365 cloud? That is the biggest question.

    I am told, by others who finished this project, that the "per user" license may go up as much as ten-fold when migrating to the cloud.

    I don't see the business value going up ten-fold.

    Any recommendations?

    Thanks

    ------------------------------
    Rod Carlson
    Database Administrator
    Chicago White Sox
    Chicago
    ------------------------------



  • 17.  RE: Creating a business case for upgrade from CRM 2011

    TOP CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted Dec 20, 2018 10:26 AM
    I would be interested in seeing some costing models on this.  Any economists out there?

    This would factor on the user licenses + storage costs (database size) but would eliminate hardware costs/replacements, OS + database licenses, maintenance costs, etc.

    The last time I was involved in this exercise was about 5 years ago, and a lot has changed, but at that time we had figured for certain clients it would be 5-8 years of subscription fees by the time they spent the same amount on hardware, licensing, infrastructure, etc. along with HW depreciation and replacement.  This did not factor in any professional services, which could easily skew the results in both directions.

    I think the correct answer is "it depends".  A straight-up comparison on just on-prem vs online user licenses would not be accurate.  I don't think "tenfold" seems right... but I don't know the whole story.

    Unfortunately, I have seen some fear-mongering and resistance to moving to the cloud.  Like any project, it's best to get different opinions from ideally unbiased sources.

    Good discussion.

    Cheers
    Nick


    ------------------------------
    Nick Doelman
    Microsoft MVP
    Ottawa ON
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  • 18.  RE: Creating a business case for upgrade from CRM 2011

    SILVER CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted Dec 20, 2018 10:35 AM
    Microsoft offered us a "TCO Analysis", so maybe you ask your Microsoft-representative if this is possible.
    Could be that is only part of the "Enterprise Agreements" that they offer.

    There you have to fill out everything you spend for your On-Prem-Environment, the most significant parts are SQL- and Windows-license-costs.
    All the other costs are not very high (electricity, racking, storage etc.)
    We haven't finished it, but at the end MS will tell you, how much you will spend in the Cloud compared to On-Prem.

    I think you can't estimate the costs by yourself, because MS is offering different pricing Levels depending on your Situation, e.g. the "Customer Engagement Plan" will get cheaper and cheaper the more licenses you buy.

    I think it highly depends on your situation, if it makes sense to move to the cloud.
    We have the hardware and admins anyway, and it doesn't really make a difference if there are some more (CRM)-Servers to handle.
    If we move CRM to the Cloud we couldn't really save any employee-costs, because the main effort-driver regarding CRM is customizing, testing, bugfixing in the UI etc. all this will stay the same in the cloud.

    ------------------------------
    Johannes .
    Albis
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  • 19.  RE: Creating a business case for upgrade from CRM 2011

    Posted Dec 21, 2018 03:00 AM
    With the Cloud version we are hit very hard by the licensing model that Microsoft has. We use CRM for sales and support. Especially our support people are driving costs really high as they all need writing permission. I thought there might be some licensing options like in Salesforce - no need to see everything, but so far it doesn't look good from that perspective.

    We have quite big own infrastructure as we have our own software we sell that has also back ups, hence the benefits of cloud are not as strong for us. I suspect the hosting cost are probably absorbed by our current settings.

    I am myself in marketing and so I put forward my business case as inability to track efficiencies in marketing activities. The BI analytics is of interest to our commercial dept as well. As far as I am concerned, that's way forward as developers simply put up with the stuff. The challenge we have at this moment is we need to demonstrate the value of the upgrade to the business. I went to the last London CRM user group and so far the strategy of process/skills/systems works (We need to review our processes, check people have the right skillsets and also see if our systems can support the processes). It means though that in order to demonstrate the value of the system we need to review our processes as well. Which of course means that it's getting bigger project than before. However, the key here is: it's still a project that's very much on the table.

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    Zlatka
    United Kingdom
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  • 20.  RE: Creating a business case for upgrade from CRM 2011

    GOLD CONTRIBUTOR
    Posted Dec 20, 2018 03:22 PM
    A few points that they might not have considered
    1) Microsoft Dynamics 365 for CE Online uses Azure to supplement the feature set of Dynamics 365. An easy example is Relevant Search using the "Bing Like" Search engine of Azure.

    2) Microsoft's artificial intelligence is built into CE, the "Relationship Assistant" can be enabled on any form.

    3) The platform technology has matured over the years to keep pace and to continue to be compatible with all other platforms such as Windows, the operating systems, e-mail, the workstation and Servers, Microsoft SQL Server, etc. Compatibility can cause some real headaches. Just wait till the CEO wants a new laptop and it doesn't work with the ancient software.

    4) PowerBI (just show them what they can do in Excel with PowerBI with data from Dynamics.) Usage is the variable and to increase usage, you have to show them why.

    5) Outlook Compatibility and the Outlook App

    6) Compliance, use www.microsofttrust.com and search on Dynamics, for details.  This includes READ AUDIT, which is new and the Organizational Insights dashboard where you can see what people are doing.




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    Anne Stanton
    Architect
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