Customer Engagement & Dynamics CRM Forum

This morning I started seeing this message when I edit workflows:

• Flows are owned by a user, while workflows can be set to any owner. I want the workflow to be run by a system user or user who initiated the workflow.
• Flows require syntax knowledge in order to accomplish the same action in a comparatively simple approach using dropdown selections.
• Flows do not "port" existing workflows. If I am using a plugin or workflow toolkit, it is prohibitive to attempt to recreate this using flow.

Flow was pitched as a "no cliff" approach to automation at the CRMUG Summit last October, with complete parity to workflows. As far as I can tell, the development of a more pleasing graphical interface was done without regard for the fact that actually using workflows is easier.

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Adam Posegate
Fox Valley Technical College
Appleton WI
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I have only started using flows for things I cannot do in the traditional workflow engine. In my case that means I have set up two flows that connect with CRM and send out daily reminders to anyone who has an open Opportunity with an Estimated Close Date in the past. I think it's best to gradually try to migrate flows - starting with the ones that you can fully migrate already and giving feedback to Microsoft about the ones that you cannot yet fully migrate. I'm hoping they will give lots of transition time for this one.

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Sissy Bottcher
Business Process Innovation Specialist
StudyPortals
San Diego CA
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Original Message:
Sent: Aug 05, 2019 09:56 AM
From: Adam Posegate
Subject: Workflows now suggesting I use Flow

This morning I started seeing this message when I edit workflows:

I still find there are too many issues with using Flow to attempt to switch over. How has your organization approached these issues?

• Flows are owned by a user, while workflows can be set to any owner. I want the workflow to be run by a system user or user who initiated the workflow.
• Flows require syntax knowledge in order to accomplish the same action in a comparatively simple approach using dropdown selections.
• Flows do not "port" existing workflows. If I am using a plugin or workflow toolkit, it is prohibitive to attempt to recreate this using flow.

Flow was pitched as a "no cliff" approach to automation at the CRMUG Summit last October, with complete parity to workflows. As far as I can tell, the development of a more pleasing graphical interface was done without regard for the fact that actually using workflows is easier.

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Adam Posegate
Fox Valley Technical College
Appleton WI
------------------------------

Yes, I've seen that message as well. I think it is a little premature to show the message because we don't have parity between workflows and flows.

However, I don't see Microsoft investing in workflows any more and that one day (whenever that is), workflows will be deprecated.

So I agree with Sissy, start migrating, investigating and give feedback on the features missing from Flow that are holding you back.

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Feridun Kadir
Principal Consultant, MVP
Expert CRM Services Ltd
Stansted
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Original Message:
Sent: Aug 05, 2019 09:56 AM
From: Adam Posegate
Subject: Workflows now suggesting I use Flow

This morning I started seeing this message when I edit workflows:

I still find there are too many issues with using Flow to attempt to switch over. How has your organization approached these issues?

• Flows are owned by a user, while workflows can be set to any owner. I want the workflow to be run by a system user or user who initiated the workflow.
• Flows require syntax knowledge in order to accomplish the same action in a comparatively simple approach using dropdown selections.
• Flows do not "port" existing workflows. If I am using a plugin or workflow toolkit, it is prohibitive to attempt to recreate this using flow.

Flow was pitched as a "no cliff" approach to automation at the CRMUG Summit last October, with complete parity to workflows. As far as I can tell, the development of a more pleasing graphical interface was done without regard for the fact that actually using workflows is easier.

------------------------------
Adam Posegate
Fox Valley Technical College
Appleton WI
------------------------------

Hey @Adam Posegate

We've taken the approach of a Flow first design. That is,any new async interaction with D365 ​we approach the solution with Flow first, and if it doesn't fit, we fall back to Workflow.

It has had some output so far.

1. Pushed the developers into the Flow space and doing their own due diligence on if the operation will scale on flow, and expanding best practices. 
2. Has led to some heated debates on if Flow is ready for all operations vs. the tried and true workflow / async plugin model. 
3. Lots of testing and conversations around DLP on environments
4. Pushing us to develop our ALM strategy for Flow. 
5. Flows can be owned by a System user, and is actually considered a best practice vs. leaving system flows owned by a user.

Eventually, Flow will reach parity and go beyond workflow. So we're doing what we can now to stay ahead of that curve.   Once we have the process ironed out we'll start migrating over our existing workflows.

Good Luck!

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Todd Mercer
Dynamics CRM Technical Lead
MD Financial Management
Ottawa ON
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 05, 2019 09:56 AM
From: Adam Posegate
Subject: Workflows now suggesting I use Flow

This morning I started seeing this message when I edit workflows:

I still find there are too many issues with using Flow to attempt to switch over. How has your organization approached these issues?

• Flows are owned by a user, while workflows can be set to any owner. I want the workflow to be run by a system user or user who initiated the workflow.
• Flows require syntax knowledge in order to accomplish the same action in a comparatively simple approach using dropdown selections.
• Flows do not "port" existing workflows. If I am using a plugin or workflow toolkit, it is prohibitive to attempt to recreate this using flow.

Flow was pitched as a "no cliff" approach to automation at the CRMUG Summit last October, with complete parity to workflows. As far as I can tell, the development of a more pleasing graphical interface was done without regard for the fact that actually using workflows is easier.

------------------------------
Adam Posegate
Fox Valley Technical College
Appleton WI
------------------------------

One potential reason to show this message would be Microsoft don't want to promote usage of workflows much because they might have plans to deprecate/replace the workflows eventually with the flows.
There are many high-level functionalities which can be achieved with the flows which are not possible with workflows and so it becomes more complex to use because of its flexibility.
However it's true that flow still needs to be refined to further to reach the maturity and reliability in terms of workflows,
In the flows the one particular point which I have felt where the flow fails is the filtered trigger, if we get functionality to trigger the flow on particular field change OOB that would be very nice.



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Nidheesh C P
Corporate Renaissance Group
Ottawa ON
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 05, 2019 09:56 AM
From: Adam Posegate
Subject: Workflows now suggesting I use Flow

This morning I started seeing this message when I edit workflows:

I still find there are too many issues with using Flow to attempt to switch over. How has your organization approached these issues?

• Flows are owned by a user, while workflows can be set to any owner. I want the workflow to be run by a system user or user who initiated the workflow.
• Flows require syntax knowledge in order to accomplish the same action in a comparatively simple approach using dropdown selections.
• Flows do not "port" existing workflows. If I am using a plugin or workflow toolkit, it is prohibitive to attempt to recreate this using flow.

Flow was pitched as a "no cliff" approach to automation at the CRMUG Summit last October, with complete parity to workflows. As far as I can tell, the development of a more pleasing graphical interface was done without regard for the fact that actually using workflows is easier.

------------------------------
Adam Posegate
Fox Valley Technical College
Appleton WI
------------------------------

Can the workflows be converted to Flow even if you haven't switched to the Unified Interface?

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Mary Cunningham
Director - Service Technology
Comfort Systems USA
Ocala FL
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 05, 2019 09:56 AM
From: Adam Posegate
Subject: Workflows now suggesting I use Flow

This morning I started seeing this message when I edit workflows:

I still find there are too many issues with using Flow to attempt to switch over. How has your organization approached these issues?

• Flows are owned by a user, while workflows can be set to any owner. I want the workflow to be run by a system user or user who initiated the workflow.
• Flows require syntax knowledge in order to accomplish the same action in a comparatively simple approach using dropdown selections.
• Flows do not "port" existing workflows. If I am using a plugin or workflow toolkit, it is prohibitive to attempt to recreate this using flow.

Flow was pitched as a "no cliff" approach to automation at the CRMUG Summit last October, with complete parity to workflows. As far as I can tell, the development of a more pleasing graphical interface was done without regard for the fact that actually using workflows is easier.

------------------------------
Adam Posegate
Fox Valley Technical College
Appleton WI
------------------------------

No at this point there no options to convert the workflows to flows and there are some functional differences between these two as well which makes it difficult to programmatically convert the functionalities.
If you need to do it has to be a manual process and regarding the interface, it doesn't matter which interface you are in as these are processing functionalities both flow and workflow will behave exactly same in both UI.

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Nidheesh C P
Business Application Consultant
Corporate Renaissance Group
Ottawa ON
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 07, 2019 12:13 PM
From: Mary Cunningham
Subject: Workflows now suggesting I use Flow

Can the workflows be converted to Flow even if you haven't switched to the Unified Interface?

------------------------------
Mary Cunningham
Director - Service Technology
Comfort Systems USA
Ocala FL

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 05, 2019 09:56 AM
From: Adam Posegate
Subject: Workflows now suggesting I use Flow

This morning I started seeing this message when I edit workflows:

I still find there are too many issues with using Flow to attempt to switch over. How has your organization approached these issues?

• Flows are owned by a user, while workflows can be set to any owner. I want the workflow to be run by a system user or user who initiated the workflow.
• Flows require syntax knowledge in order to accomplish the same action in a comparatively simple approach using dropdown selections.
• Flows do not "port" existing workflows. If I am using a plugin or workflow toolkit, it is prohibitive to attempt to recreate this using flow.

Flow was pitched as a "no cliff" approach to automation at the CRMUG Summit last October, with complete parity to workflows. As far as I can tell, the development of a more pleasing graphical interface was done without regard for the fact that actually using workflows is easier.

------------------------------
Adam Posegate
Fox Valley Technical College
Appleton WI
------------------------------

Thanks for your feedback. Another item I'm looking at is the parity for triggering on field change. This does not exist with the Dynamics 365 trigger. It does exist for the Common Data Service PREMIUM trigger.
https://us.flow.microsoft.com/en-us/pricing/


Is that right? Are they deprecating a feature in Dynamics and requiring businesses to pay additional fees to have the same usability in Flow?

In such a case it may be better to develop custom plugins without the limit on flow runs and monthly service costs. For many of the advanced functions in Flow, the same person who develops those could likely develop a custom plugin.

------------------------------
Adam Posegate
Fox Valley Technical College
Appleton WI
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 05, 2019 09:56 AM
From: Adam Posegate
Subject: Workflows now suggesting I use Flow

This morning I started seeing this message when I edit workflows:

I still find there are too many issues with using Flow to attempt to switch over. How has your organization approached these issues?

• Flows are owned by a user, while workflows can be set to any owner. I want the workflow to be run by a system user or user who initiated the workflow.
• Flows require syntax knowledge in order to accomplish the same action in a comparatively simple approach using dropdown selections.
• Flows do not "port" existing workflows. If I am using a plugin or workflow toolkit, it is prohibitive to attempt to recreate this using flow.

Flow was pitched as a "no cliff" approach to automation at the CRMUG Summit last October, with complete parity to workflows. As far as I can tell, the development of a more pleasing graphical interface was done without regard for the fact that actually using workflows is easier.

------------------------------
Adam Posegate
Fox Valley Technical College
Appleton WI
------------------------------

@Adam Posegate - I believe you are looking at the incorrect section of the Flow pricing. You posted a screen shot of the Capacity (storage) pricing. According to the licensing guide for Flow, Dynamics 365 Enterprise includes PowerApps and Flow Plan 2.

 ​

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Aaron Back, MCSE
Sr. Microsoft Dynamics 365 Consultant
www.acemicrotech.com
_______________________________________
CRMUG Board Member
CRMUG Chapter Leader - Cincinnati, Ohio
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 08, 2019 10:51 AM
From: Adam Posegate
Subject: Workflows now suggesting I use Flow

Thanks for your feedback. Another item I'm looking at is the parity for triggering on field change. This does not exist with the Dynamics 365 trigger. It does exist for the Common Data Service PREMIUM trigger.

Looking at the features/pricing plan for flow (link below), it appears that using CDS costs extra even for Dynamics users.

https://us.flow.microsoft.com/en-us/pricing/


Is that right? Are they deprecating a feature in Dynamics and requiring businesses to pay additional fees to have the same usability in Flow?

In such a case it may be better to develop custom plugins without the limit on flow runs and monthly service costs. For many of the advanced functions in Flow, the same person who develops those could likely develop a custom plugin.

------------------------------
Adam Posegate
Fox Valley Technical College
Appleton WI

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 05, 2019 09:56 AM
From: Adam Posegate
Subject: Workflows now suggesting I use Flow

This morning I started seeing this message when I edit workflows:

I still find there are too many issues with using Flow to attempt to switch over. How has your organization approached these issues?

• Flows are owned by a user, while workflows can be set to any owner. I want the workflow to be run by a system user or user who initiated the workflow.
• Flows require syntax knowledge in order to accomplish the same action in a comparatively simple approach using dropdown selections.
• Flows do not "port" existing workflows. If I am using a plugin or workflow toolkit, it is prohibitive to attempt to recreate this using flow.

Flow was pitched as a "no cliff" approach to automation at the CRMUG Summit last October, with complete parity to workflows. As far as I can tell, the development of a more pleasing graphical interface was done without regard for the fact that actually using workflows is easier.

------------------------------
Adam Posegate
Fox Valley Technical College
Appleton WI
------------------------------

Adam, I completely agree. I do not see how Flow will be able to replace native workflows because there are use-cases for synchronous workflows that Flow cannot do. I prefer to work with Azure LogicApps becuase it can do what Flow does for a fraction of the cost. When they advertise 2000 "runs", that is actually each step in the Flow that interacts with CRM, not a single execution of a Flow. For example, If you have a single Flow that has 10 action steps that access D365, then you have 10 runs each time you run that flow.

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Nelson Johnson, Solution Architect
BroadPoint, Inc., Bethesda MD
Link with me! https://www.linkedin.com/in/nelsonjohnson/
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Aug 05, 2019 09:56 AM
From: Adam Posegate
Subject: Workflows now suggesting I use Flow

This morning I started seeing this message when I edit workflows:

I still find there are too many issues with using Flow to attempt to switch over. How has your organization approached these issues?

• Flows are owned by a user, while workflows can be set to any owner. I want the workflow to be run by a system user or user who initiated the workflow.
• Flows require syntax knowledge in order to accomplish the same action in a comparatively simple approach using dropdown selections.
• Flows do not "port" existing workflows. If I am using a plugin or workflow toolkit, it is prohibitive to attempt to recreate this using flow.

Flow was pitched as a "no cliff" approach to automation at the CRMUG Summit last October, with complete parity to workflows. As far as I can tell, the development of a more pleasing graphical interface was done without regard for the fact that actually using workflows is easier.

------------------------------
Adam Posegate
Fox Valley Technical College
Appleton WI
------------------------------